Live, Enjoy & Just Be

For my final interview of Season One of Creative & Resilient Voices, I sit with Ms. Celia Lloyd: strategist, coach, femtor, mentor, change leader and retired higher education administrator. This conversation highlights Celia’s quiet wisdom and grace as she explores her recent transition to retirement and what her next chapter could evolve into.

We explore the themes of: 

·      Bringing passion and purpose into the retirement years

·      Exploring the wide open space of structuring the day according to your needs

·      The realities of elder care and the importance of balancing self-care

·      The importance of not waiting until retirement to do the things you love and to take time for yourself

You connect Celia on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/celiaplloyd/

If this episode resonates with you let me know. Send me an email at Kenya@Kenyanyotalee.com

About Dr. Kenya Nyota Lee
Dr. Kenya Nyota Lee is a storyteller, leader, and strategist whose work explores creativity, resilience, leadership, and the deeply human process of becoming. Through essays, conversations, and community gatherings, she creates spaces where women can reflect on their journeys, recognize themselves in one another’s stories, and step forward with greater clarity and courage.

Read and subscribe: creativeandresilient.substack.com

Connect on LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/kenyanyotalee

or send an email to kenya@kenyanyotalee.com

or visit www.kenyanyotalee.com

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Your story matters. Your creativity in all its forms is sacred. Your resilience is your superpower.

Transcript

0:04

Welcome to Creative Committee. We're so full story coming with all strategies. I'm your host, Artic Kenya Neora, me. We at the start click for what it means to live, lead, and create with intention, to add, reflect them, a story of coming. Because our lives are technical. And in that folding, we discover that created. Hello and welcome to another episode of Creative and Resilient Voices. I am Dr. Kenya Neoda Lee, your host. And I'm here today with Celia Lloyd. Celia is a strategist, a coach, a FEMTOR, mentor, and change leader. And also recently retired after about 40 years as a higher education administrator. Is that correct, Celia? I say 40 years in the profession because I started I ended up as an the last so much so many years where I was more of the administrator kind of person. I initially started off more in the assistant role. Okay. Okay. That's good. So welcome. I'm very excited to have a conversation with you. Um so before we jump into uh the questions, um I'd love for you to start off with maybe describing the season that you're in right now in one word or phrase. What would that be? Exciting? A bit of I would say possibly a little bit of trepidation because we never know what's behind we don't know what's behind that curtain. So I think about it. So it's not I can say exciting and confident, but um very but aware that confident and just ready to pivot. Okay, okay. Yeah, ready to ready, ready to pivot. And we and you use the term trepidation, so is it that you're thinking about the perhaps the uncertainty of the future? When you say trepidation? Well, you know what? Maybe let me I think I want to recall that word. It's probably not trepidation, because I'm talking about it, right? So I am I'm aware, I'm mindful, my antenna, uh, but not trepidation, really. It's exciting, and um I have to always just be ready to pivot. Okay. All right, so you so you're stepping into the future confidently and ready, ready for whatever rolls your way. Uh yes. Okay. All right, so uh, so you recently stepped away from uh VP role, um, you retired, and that's no small decision. So you can you uh take us to the moment in which you decided that it was time to walk away from that role? And um, was it a whisper or was it uh something louder that spoke to you and said, okay, let's do this? Um it started off as a whisper, um, Kenny. It started off as a whisper. And uh, I'm a planner, I'm a strategic planner, right? I plan, I planned all my life, we all do. Um and that whisper, when as I think about it now, that whisper started from the time I started working, right? Because interestingly enough, um, particularly in CUNY, you sign off all on all those documents. And recently, a couple of weeks ago, I found I located the my copy of a document that I had signed, um, just saying that, confirming that I was going to retire at age whatever it was. Not that I thought about it. I, you know what, it was part of the orientation packet when I started off in CUNY uh in the 80s, in the mid-80s, right? And so you sign off on it and you keep moving. So there's that. The other thing that I've always known, as I've watched people throughout my lifetime, and not only family members, friends, you know, loved ones, um, supervisors, I've always somewhere in my consciousness, I've always known that I would want to retire with enough space to live a second and a third life. And you know, you hear stories about people who, for whatever reason, they retire and expire almost immediately. So I thought that if I had an opportunity, if I could, if if I could work life, that I could retire and have time to live a second life. Yeah, so so so that whisper, the whisper had always been there. So as I, you know, as working through as the time went by, the whisper, the whisper became a little louder. And when I by the time I made the decision to pull the plug to say send the um retirement notice, uh it was screaming in the ears. It was loud. It was loud. Yes, and it was loud because I knew that I was it's work, it's exhausting work. I had gotten I I had gotten past a year or two past the number that I thought I would retire at. But it was exhausting work, and when you when you're on it, there's so many expectations of you, and it's easy to, it can be very easy to just sit in that space because my goodness, if I retire, are they gonna say that I'm not doing a good job? If I if I say if I if I make a decision to retire, am I gonna be judged, right? But so there's that. But that that I think never didn't stop me. I just knew that I was I was tired. I knew that it was time to go. But what held me a little longer was figuring, trying to figure out the best time to go. And it's never any good time. Uh now you you said something I want to go back to. Um, whereas you see some people, I guess, just hang on for so long. Um, and then when they finally retired, there's really no time or space to do anything differently. And I think sometimes that is because we can our identities can be so wrapped up with the role with an organization, particularly if you've been there for so long, that you don't know who you are if you're not tied to that role or organization. Um, so so for you, um were there any parts of your identity that were particularly hard to release when you decided to step away from that role and retire? No. Okay, no. I always knew that look, I the one thing that I know about myself is that I'm Celia Lloyd. And I would tell people, talk to my parents, check my birth certificate. There is no title of vice president or anything on that birth certificate. I'm Celia Lloyd. And I as far as far as I can remember, growing up and you know, starting to date, and I remember saying to this one person I was dating for a little bit, he wanted me to do something that I didn't want to do. And I said, I don't care if you don't love me. My mom and my mommy and my daddy love me anyway. So that sort of, so I knew that I I knew that I somehow I always knew that I was gonna be okay. So stepping away from the vice presidency didn't just a title. Because you strip that away on who are you? Exactly, exactly. Uh, because because I I think what, and I'll speak, you know, for uh for women in particular, is that we we have so many identities, so many roles, you know, that say executive is just just one of them. It's just one of them. Um, and so when we walk through the halls of these organizations or walk through life, we're not just coming into a room with this one hat on. We have all our hats on, you know, and there's always this internal battle that that some women may have as far as um how much of themselves to bring into a role, to bring into a room. Um, or you know, then there are those that it's very easy for them to bring their whole selves into a space. Um, so so for you, um I say how did you have that kind of a uh um I guess uh an internal battle, or did you were you just confident enough to just bring the whole authentic Celia into the room? I was you know, I I was confident enough to bring Celia into the room, right? Um, I am I I used I would say to people, look, if because when I come into the room, when I come into the room, particularly when I walk into the campus, it's my profession, when I come into the room, I'm there for one reason and one reason only to serve the students, first and foremost. That's it, right? So every everyone I encounter, uh my colleagues, if we have a difference of opinion, I would it would it should be based on the mission and the vision. So my posture has always been, and I actually would articulate it at times, particularly in some difficult, um, challenging times throughout the career, and we we all have them. I would say, look, if it makes anyone unhappy when I walk into a room, they're more than happy to leave because I'm there for one reason and one reason only to serve the students. And I was really, really clear. I've always been very clear about mission that way. So um, so you walked through uh into any space with um an alignment of purpose and passion. Yes. And so as you have stepped into this next chapter, how have you brought your purpose and passion into um this this this uh this new um chapter of your life? Uh now that that's in that's an interest that's an interesting space I'm in because there was because okay, I walked out, I walked away, I retired, and or I left the purpose and passion of having a specific, a defined mission. Right. And that I think it's it's easier because there's clarity, right? There's a mission, there's a goal, there are the goals and objectives and expectations. So there's clarity in that. And all of a sudden, I walk into this space that's wide open, kind of wide open. What do I do with all that space? There are no strategic plans to write, there no, there's not necessarily anybody that can say, you know what, let's talk, let's talk. You know what? What are you doing with your life? Let's let me let me be your mentor, right? So there's all this open space. I thought I was prepared for I knew that I would be okay, right? But it was it's like a little bit of a shock. You know, let me be real honest. As much as I can manage my time and space, it was because all of a sudden I didn't have to, there were no meetings, there were no roads, and then if and particularly for me, particularly because I'm I'm the only person in my household, that's the other thing. So, so so that there was there's just me. I wake up in the morning and it was where are these people I'm supposed to be? Me, so it was maybe a tad bit unnerving for a while as I was trying to so I knew I could man, I was okay managing, but as I was trying to navigate, because oh I gotta no, you don't have to get wake up at nine o'clock, right? You don't have to do any, so it was a little bit of unnerving as I tried to do the realignment. As I tried to do the realignment, as I I I um as I um had to really do a lot of talking to myself as well. Look, it's okay, it's okay, Celia. It is okay just to be. When I worked, I when I worked, I had that under control, being, because I I could decide and determine when I was going to be quiet. I don't want to talk to anybody this weekend because I'm exhausted. I'll see them on Monday. All of a sudden, yeah, so suddenly, so it was a bit, as I said, it was a little bit of a jarring as I tried to align. And because of the way I because of the way I think and approach life, I knew that it wouldn't be, I wouldn't be in that that space for a very long time. I also found it very helpful to talk to to friends and others who had retired. And I remember someone who had she'd been hired to very powerful position. She she retired as a as a provost, and she she told me I had deep respect for her, and she told me that it took her years to really understand that it was oh just okay. Nobody's judging you, nobody's evaluating you. So what has the the realignment um what has it looked like for you? And and what I'll I'll note also is that I think when we work these very demanding, I say nine to five, but I think we're we're working eight to seven. Um sometimes eight to eight. Um to eight a.m. Yes. Yeah, eight a.m. to eight p.m. Um so you went from that to basically almost like a blank sheet of paper, you know. So like you said, you had the weekends, whereas you were just trying to recover from the week, but now you're not recovering from anything. Right. Um, so you have this this stretcher road ahead of you. Um, so what has realignment looked looked like for you? Um I I I really I I really did some deep thinking about some of the things that I love to do, right? My passion, my hobbies. Like I love walking. I like I mentioned earlier, I I love beating. So I started to design and redesign some of my my um my pieces, my jewelry. And I love writing, just writing. And I never I always thought I keep a lot of journals. I love pen and paper, journals, there's paper all over my life, but I never really had, I thought, the a real opportunity to just sit and be quiet and just write. So that uh that gave me some grounding, and I have a very good library in my neighborhood. There is right sort of like diagonal from my home. So I looked at the calendar and I found some interesting programs. There was um, there's a creative writing and uh creative writing and journaling. So I I immediately um I immediately registered for that. There was something on retirement, retiring and aging. I so I registered for a lot of programs, so many programs that gave me some sort of structure because structure going from going from an incredibly structured existence to those structures can be can, and that's the place where that was like a little bit of an earthquake for me as I was trying to to to to realize. So I gave myself a few weeks to just sleep, just wake up when I wanted to, because I think that's that was important. And then I says, okay, Sylvia, get with it. So the um getting involved in and participating in programs at my library gave me some um more of a structure. I um I I love Pilates, so I could now go from Pilates two days a week to five days a week. So just just yeah. Okay. So um we had a conversation, you know, prior to today. You had talked about how you had you also had this love for coaching and mentoring that you did when you were in your role as a higher education administrator. Um, so how do you see yourself bringing that passion into this chapter of your life? I think because my passion is always to groom and grow and leave something, leave something behind, right? Share and leave something behind. I am now looking at I I'm now looking at setting up some kind of for myself, some sort of organizational structure, and it might be an LLC because there's all this information and there's this expertise and information that I have, and I'd hear it to be ad hoc if some so so forming maybe an LLC would permit me to structure, and it would be then it'll be it would then make it a little easier, I think, for me to decide where I go from here, what's pro bono, what's paid. So that's I'm doing some research on that right now. Okay. Because there is too much, there's too much of for me, there is too much of life to just let it go. Right. I I I I always say that I have no idea. I'm I'm fully aware of the people who who were instrumental in in helping me along the way, family, friends, loved ones, supervisors, career-wise, right? But I have, and I always say we don't, but I we have no idea of the people who may be helping and moving and propelling us forward, who we will never know. We'll never know who they are, right? So that's that fuels a passion in me to say you have give. Just you know, give mentoring is mentoring, is what I do. Um a lot of the uh people still need to be educated, people still need to know how to navigate to navigate. So so that's where I see myself being um continuing to be a very strong world citizen, if you will. Okay. And do you see yourself still working with um young people as you did um um within the university system? I do, and I mentor people of you know uh along this um spectrum of all ages, because one of the again, in my experience, for whatever reason, people say, go ask Celia. What do you think I know? And someone told me years ago, you just look like you know. So, so it's so it's not young people, yes, but it's anyone I can see, I can see, for instance, I can envision a role working, say, with organizations helping to helping their um their mid-level or new new managers or mid-level managers to move up. So it's it's a wide open field for me right now. And the thing that's exciting about that is that I can create, I can create it. So um, you say you've done work with as a strategist and as a change leader. Do you see yourself also helping organizations with that? I do. I do. And again, I'm I'm trying to trying to figure out what that would look like. Yeah. And I actually currently am I really excited about this because I current, I just recently got certified to be as a volunteer communicate volunteer community educator for the Alzheimer's Association. It happened because I went to a program at the library. I was impressed with the um the information was very informative. The presenter was was excellent. I spoke to the person who sat to my right, who happened to have been a I think the program manager, and we had a conversation. And she says, uh, you know, she asked me what I did. I told her, other than being retired, let me tell you what I used to do. And um, we connected, and so I've just I've just completed the certification, and I'll probably be doing my first uh presentation in another month or so. Okay, nice. So you're you're you're using this opportunity to to explore and to see what speaks to you, just allow it to evolve from there. Right. Absolutely. Now, uh one of the the titles that you've given yourself is a femtor. Talk to me about what it means to be a femTOR. What I learned that it means what it means to be a femtor, I learned is that you know I I I will I coach and mentor, it doesn't matter, males, females, I coach and mentor individuals, period. And it's the what it means to be a femtor is the focus on women. And actually the interesting thing, Kenny, about that was that I was having brunch with a male, a male friend, a male calling, and he's the one who says, This is and I said, What is a femtor? And then we had this conversation, right? And then he says, I don't want you to forget it. And he says, Give me your phone. And he took my phone and he updated the phone from me. And updating my profile, yeah. So you know, focus again um um on women because sometimes oftentimes we have we seem to have a a a harder road to travel, if you will. But I'm open to but I'm open to anyone who's ready. Um so uh I guess speaking speaking of then you talk about the roads that we have to travel as as women. Um what would you say was the greatest lesson that you learned in your professional career that you're carrying into um this this new this new um uh path that you're on that um don't take anything personally and I use this I found this someplace a q tip theory, qt i p quit taking it personally because uh for me taking taking everything personally, and it's not that I'm I I'm aware of the nuances and the things that are happening in my space, right? So I'm not going to walk around being um with a lack of understanding of what's happening in in in my space, in the sphere in the world all the time, but I choose to be just to to be purposeful and not to take things personally, and the other thing is to be flexible, right? Be as flexible as possible. Um and I if I if I wasn't fully aware of that pre-retirement, when I got I got last year almost knocked off my feet and into a caregiving role for my mom, and I learned so much in that that that um that flexibility, it's important to be as flexible as possible. It's important, yes, have a plan, have a plan, right? But understand that anything that life could derail that plan, and then what do you do? Which is why for me, because my guiding principle has always been do the best you can, Celia, because I've heard it from my parents, from my elders, just do the best you can. So even work, even working, I knew that I was less concerned about what everybody was gonna think about what I was doing because I knew I felt that I was doing the best I could. So those are two, those are those are among the things I would carry with me through life. Try to be very flexible, and you can't take anything, too many things, try not to take too many things too personally and listen a lot because there's always a lesson in something. And the worse the situation, the worse the situation is, the the more the more I try to listen because there might be something in a negative or bad situation that I could probably learn from. So I'm gonna uh touch a bit on the elder care because I think it's something that most of us will have to face at some point in our lives, and it can be um simultaneously a humbling experience, but also one of great honor. Um, what has that experience um been for you? Like how has it shaped your understanding of responsibility, love, and presence? Um that the the experience with my mom and uh and it was a really it was real rocky road, right? So again, just to be just to to stop for a minute, breathe, take stock before you move ahead, because we found she mom's in her 90s, mom's 91, 92, and she was ailing. She was still older, she was slowing down, and I had gone to visit, and um she I had gone to visit and I fit I I don't know, I assumed I'd be there for a few weeks, and the next thing I knew, I was with her in Canada for almost nine months. And um one day she was okay, and within the next few days, I was talking to a funeral home and cemeteries and stuff. So it has been so it's been a rocky road, but it's that grounding, and again, even with that, I caregiving. I don't know how to caregiving, give her. I I don't know what to do if you have a very ill elder, you call the doctor's office, right? And all of a sudden, and suddenly I'm with mom and have to try to figure it out, figure out the system, understand what's going on, try to to to make the right decisions. And the only thing that I I I was talking to my sister, and I says, I can only do the best I can. And because I had obviously acknowledging that I know nothing about this, but I have so I have no strategic plan for this. Right, and um giving oneself uh being easy on ourselves, being easy on myself, and giving myself the grace again to understand that some days you're just going to get it wrong, right? Some days you're just going to get it real wrong. So um, that that that that um understanding of grace is very important and carries us through so many aspects of our lives. That like you said, we're we're not gonna do it perfectly, right? And you know, like you said, you you do the best that you can. Yes, you know, and you know what, Kenya, throughout life, I find, well, for us as men, oftentimes as women, I find we don't give ourselves enough grace. Right. There's a lot, there's a lot of responsibility thrown up thrown on thrown upon us, and we accept it humbly, and we stop to give ourselves a pat on the back. And someone, I spoke to someone as recently as yesterday again, someone pays us a compliment. Ah nah. And I've learned to say, just say thank you, right? And um because the responsibilities don't end, but if we're not careful, if we're not careful, if we don't know how to care for ourselves, and I learned that very well too, with having to take care of mom, then you can't there's a saying you can't pour from an empty cup. If you if you're not whole, if if if you're not rejuvenated, if I haven't had enough rest and and sleep and exercise, then I'm not gonna take, I'm not gonna be able to give anything, give anything to my mom. So I learned, I learned some really hard, or some of the lessons I thought I had learned as I was growing up and working, they were rare, they um were solidified in that almost a year, in that almost 12 months or more um caregiving for mom. Okay, so I thought I was patient. I thought I was patient. Well, I learned the definition, true definition of patient. And this is your mom, Celia. This is mother, so you're gonna have to deal, right? Yep. I learned a lot, I learned a lot about myself too. You know, it's all it's all part of the journey, you know. Um I think we have in anything that we do through a lens of humility, like you said before, there's always a lesson to be to be learned. Um, and also um it's important that we understand um that we are aware of the areas that we need to continue to grow in. Yes, you know, that that's why we're here. That's why we that's why we walk the earth. Um so so you're in this space and you're you know, you're navigating um, I guess a lot of new things, a lot of uncertainty. Um, so how does it feel to sit with some of that uncertainty? There's some things that you just don't that you like you said before, you cannot plan for, um that you do not have control over. Um so how does it feel to sit with that uncertainty? Sometimes, you know what, uh sometimes it gives me pause. And for instance, let me use let me use a very concrete example, right? Uncertainty. Mom is now, my mom is now in a in a long-term care residence. She's having the time of her life, she loves it, right? But mom is 90 plus, and none of us will be here for forever, right? And you know, at her age and with some of her ailments, anything, anything could happen. I could get a phone call. We get a phone call. That's un that's uncertain. That's an uncertainty. I was I'm back home now in the US. I spent about nine months, as I says, with her in Canada. I'm back home, I'm further away from her. Sometimes I think, should I visit in the next week or two or whatever? But that uncertainty, so I am trying to, I'm sort of like doing the balance. I'm working into living my regular life. I have to, and and managing any kind of um nervousness that I may have about getting a phone call one day, and I have to run. So that's so so that that's a concrete space of uncertainty that I'm navigating every day. But pushing forward and pushing forward and reminding myself, you can't just sit still here. There's a whole life out there, you're a whole person, and you have to continue to do the things you have to do, and just remember to be flexible. And if you have to drop something and move, well, you've done it before, so you'll just you know. Yeah, okay. Let me ask you, um, I guess post-retirement, um, are there parts of yourself that you are meeting for the first time or or rediscovering? What surprised me, one of the things maybe that surprised me about myself too in a in a way was how quickly, how quickly I was able to let go and move on to the next phase. So I was working, I retired, I moved into moved into the new space, and I continue to explore that because again, life's changing, times change, situations will occur, and so I'm learning about I'm learning that it's okay to sit with sit with a situation before making the next move. And now I have the time to do it and I have the luxury of doing it. So just um Celia be silent. I found myself a few months ago, I was almost stripped in my own space because I was rushing from my bedroom to the kitchen. Really, Celia? That's what the thing that I used to say when I was working, I would say to my team and myself, look, things are urgent, but if something's really urgent, we're probably not even equipped to handle it, right? I said it all the time. And now I'm finding that I really it was something I said and I thought I understood it, but now I'm really getting to understand, you know what? Most things and many things out there for me are not as urgent or nothing's a whole lot of stuff is not a crisis. And if it's a real crisis, it's probably something that I am not equipped to handle. I think that's one of the lessons that I'm I'm learning at this stage of my life, too, um, a bit more advanced in my career, but also thinking about what's what's next is that all the things that I freak out about during a day that I consider a crisis, really aren't a crisis. Right. You learn you learn that perspective as you as you get a little bit bit older, you know, more advanced. You you do, and I'll say this quickly, you do, and again, even I'm back to my mom for a minute. Last year there was there were a lot of there were numerous situations that I consider the crisis. But guess what? I had to wait, I had to wait for the ambulance, I had to wait for the nurse to come, I had to yeah. Um, you know, live live a regular, like day-to-day life, um, just discovering new things about yourself and just discovering what it means to just have a more leisure life than before. Uh, what does a good day look like for you now? Ah, a good day, a good day for me is waking up, actually, still waking up, and I'm working hard on this. I want to be up, up, awake by eight o'clock, before eight o'clock on most days. Not because I'm because I'm a morning person anyway. That's the one thing I know about myself. I'm a morning person. I love the sun. I want to do, I want to take advantage of the sun, the daylight, right? So um a good day looks like if I'm up and about by eight o'clock, nine o'clock in the morning, eight, nine o'clock, but ideally eight o'clock, I can have a slow cup of tea or coffee. I can walk in the park. There's a park across the street from me, and I I had for years, I used to think, oh my gosh, these people are walking in the park. Gosh, I gotta go to work. You know, I want to get up. I'm trying to, as I've been working through the creative writing class, I'm trying to work some writing into my day because I love writing some journaling into my day. I'm fixing healthy foods. I love to cook, but I'm fixing healthier stuff. So I'm just, you know, exploring. So it's it's breakfast on something healthy and lunch on something healthier and you know, and dinner before five o'clock because the days of eating at 9 and 10 p.m. and going, you know, right? And and you know, interacting and engaging with others. So I make some time to reach out to people, I make some time to reach out, particularly to elders, um, to reach out because I think that's important. I make time to do some meditation and just work some quiet time because as much as I told you that, oh, I can manage this quiet time, something in the brain is moving me to be busy, right? There's still this thing up there that's so working some quiet time. I'm terribly bad at it right now, but I want to just make some time just to sit, even I can do this for at least 30 minutes. Start with 30 minutes, just sit. Maybe I'll read, maybe I won't. But the difference is um that you are filling your time with things that bring you joy. Yes. Um, and that that is the very big difference. So you're busy, but it's a wonderful, it's a wonderful busy. Um, and it's funny when you said that you know, that when you were working, you're, you know, you look out, I guess the windows, you're commuting, you see people in the park or walking and enjoying the day. You're like, I want to do that. And now you have a chance to. Um, and I think one of the lessons that I'm learning, even in having this conversation with you right now, is that um we need to find time to do these things in our everyday lives. You know, let's let's not wait until we retire, you know, get this stuff in now. And that involves building better boundaries in our day-to-day lives um to make space. Absolutely, absolutely. Because as you said, why wait? Why wait, right? Um, and then and then we retire. And oftentimes we retire and um we say, uh, I want to do this, that, and the other. But I said, wait a minute, all you worked, you worked all these years and you always wanted this time too, and you're gonna fill it with a lot of stuff? No, right? Like um, sometimes uh I feel there are times when we're expected to have this list. Like I've been asked often, so what are your plans? Are you gonna travel? Are you gonna be no, no, right now planning a huge trip is work. I'm not trying to do it. Plus, I knew I needed to stay close, you know, to as someone was aging. I actually my plan had been to to organize her her, organize life for her as she continued to age, right? And then, well, thing went went haywire with that. But no, do I have this big plan to travel the world right now? No, I don't want to do that. It's work, I just left that. I will. I want to do a lot of reading. I while I was working, every I I I love books, so I buy books and I say, okay, I'm gonna read this. This is my retirement. Okay, so I I read, I just want to take it down. But you're absolutely right. Making it a making it a practice part of what we do rather than waiting for waiting to retire, because you never get there. Exactly. Yeah. So as we're we're winding down, um, a couple more questions for you. Um if there is a a woman who's listening, um, and she's standing at the edge of this a major life transition, may it be to decide to um retire or to step away from a long-serving role to take some time to figure out what's next. Um what advice do you have for them? Uh take one second at a time. You don't have to have all the answers. Part of part of I think the exciting, the excitement of life actually is is finding the answers as we move forward. Life is dynamic, things will change. Don't blame yourself, be kind to yourself. Thank you. Yeah. So my last question for you is this so the the name of uh this podcast is creative and and resilient um voices, and it really is about honoring the intersection of soul and strategy in our lives, um, and to imagine or re-reimagine what's possible for ourselves. Um, so what does being creative and resilient mean to you? Being creative and resilient means really leaning into leaning into life, including the tough situations, as as as difficult as it may, they may be, but you learn, right? So and I think for me, I build the resilience as I lean into life's situations. And again, because my posture is that you don't have to have all the answers, I have I then have the space to grow and to move forward so that so that tomorrow is not promise, but tomorrow is until it's not. So I I see so I continue to move, I continue to live my passions. I'm not going to stop because I continue to live and um actualize my passion and just lean into life and tough situations. And you know what, Kenny, it's really important just to to nurture one's. Um it's been very important for me, and I think it's important for all of us, to nurture our our group or tribe, our friends, or the people that keep you whole. And I hope I didn't miss that um theme throughout, but you can't, you're not out there alone. You can't do it alone. Well, I know that I can't. And there is no way that I could have walked through life. without having assistance and I I will say this um ask for help when you need it. Yeah you you you you're selective about you know whom you share with but ask for help. There I've I've found it important to have a group or a handful of people like you just say look this is really hard I really to to be able to download that to me has been really important and just um for me survival and I'll continue to do that. So in terms of being again creative and resilient just leaning in just being honest about what's happening out there and um continue to work on my plan for the future and if the future if the so the thing that I the other the other the other um the other thing that I say is that again and I'll say it again I don't need to have things all figured out there's always tomorrow right and if there's no tomorrow then I don't need to so I don't need to have it all figured out because there's always tomorrow and if there's no tomorrow then I really don't need to have things figured out so the last thing I'll say is live enjoy and just be right live enjoy and just be well thank you so much Celia um yeah um always gleaned from your wisdom and grace and this conversation has been no exception. So I appreciate you talking with me and I think uh the the people listening will um gain some insight on on um the experiences that you've had um and it's not just about through the lens of retirement but really being able to understand um what it means to step away from a long-serving role and really discover who you are outside of that and I think you um are on this journey you're enjoying yourself and like you said you take one day at a time and you're learning to just just be um so thank you so much and Kenya thank you so much and thank you for thank you for this opportunity actually thank you for this opportunity um to uh um permitting me to explore and analyze and really really explore who is Celia who was Celia who is Celia because I've never I've never really done this in any you know real way so yeah and to you I say you know what you don't have to have it all figured out there's always tomorrow and if there's no tomorrow you really don't have to have you have nothing to worry about. So be so be kind to yourself live enjoy and just be thank you so much Celia it's always a pleasure all right thank you for joining me for this episode of Creative and Resilient Voices. If this conversation resonated with you share it with another woman on the edge of her own becoming and if you'd like to continue the journey join me on Substack at Creative and Resilient where we reflect, write and build movement together. Until next time, remember your story map your creativity all form and your resilience is your power